Tuesday, August 24, 2010

Tripping People With Beer

9 comments:

PJ King said...

I want to address some of my supporting arguments for Chris’ point:

Based on 1 Corinthians 8, it seems to me that in order to require abstention on account of others' consciences, the following are necessary:

1. Knowledge of a specific brother’s weakness
2. Presence of that weaker brother
3. Acknowledgement that, in this area, he is being the weaker brother.

Points 1 and 2 give us freedom to partake in various private and public situations. In private situations, e.g. in homes, our freedom would reign when we know that no one in our presence considers such partaking as sinful. Because the weaker brother is not present, our partaking cannot cause him to stumble in the 1 Corinthians 8 sense. Affirming that a brother’s weakness has the power to restrict our freedom at all times, even when the brother is not present, goes beyond the bounds of this passage.

I believe the same applies in public situations. We can only protect the weaker brother when we know he is in our presence. If 1 Corinthians 8 is applied in public situations to protect the generic weaker brother, then we would not be allowed to do anything in public. If we are required to protect unknown brethren from unknown weaknesses, then we are not free to do anything publicly because there is always something we might do that might offend someone. Obviously, protecting the generic weaker brother is impossible.

Point 3 exists for a different purpose. When we are restricting our freedoms for the sake of the weaker brother, it should be done in such a way that acknowledges our abstention is for his protection. The weaker brother should not be able to continue as the weaker brother while believing he is the superior brother. A brother’s weakness should be dealt with as a weakness.

A cookie cutter dialogue:
Weaker: “You should not partake in that substance because it is sinful and you need to not sin.”
Not weaker: “I will abstain in your presence so that you do not stumble as the weaker brother, however I am not affirming that partaking is sinful.”

That is all.

Julie said...

PJ,

I agree with your 3 points, but I do think that it is essential to express #3 with humility.

Well written series Chris! Thanks for discussing the hard issues.

-Julie

Chris Krycho said...

Thanks for adding those points, PJ. This was already a long article, and those points were relevant ones. It is important to remember in these discussions both your third point (those who abstain out of a belief that this is sin are weaker) and Paul's admonition in 1 Corinthians 8:8—though it is a mark of maturity to understand these things, that is not a point for pride or thinking oneself better. That is a hard line for most people to walk, unfortunately.

Julie—thanks; I'm glad it has been a good series. I debated about addressing this particular issue, but I think it is significant enough in the life of the church, especially in parts of the South in the US, that it was worth tackling in detail. As I noted above, I agree with your caution in response to PJ (as he does), and that's something I've had to wrestle with as I've written. It is difficult, at times, to know what is pride and what isn't. The moment a hint of superiority begins to creep in, we're headed the wrong way.

Julie said...

The alcohol debate is found all over the world, to be sure. In Nicaragua, many evangelical believers think that one cannot be both a Christian and be one who drinks (or smokes for that matter). Originally, our ministry had a no alcohol policy for several reasons, including the desire to protect our brothers and sisters who have stumbled in the past. However, the policy has recently been changed (Chase and I rejoice about this!) and we look forward to the challenge that lies ahead of interacting with the Nica Christian community and enjoying our new found freedom.

Chris Krycho said...

Thanks, Jaimie and Ed!

Julie—I'll be excited to hear how that goes. I definitely believe that we're better off teaching wisdom (however hard it is) and helping people to mature in their faith than simply saying, "Don't do such-and-such!" In the end, that is a big part of what discipleship entails, I think!

Anonymous said...

I am not entirely convinced that a brother or sister in Christ who abstains from alcohol on 'moral' grounds should necessarily be considered 'weaker', or at least I have not yet been convinced. If drinking is a sin against their own conscience, can one really call them 'weaker'? Weaker in the sense that they do not realize the full impact of their sanctified freedom?

While I am very obviously ruminating as I type, it seems that one's faith is dependent on something more meta-physical than one's capacity to translate theological principles into direct application.

Furthermore, I am interested how you might apply these same principles to smoking, or 'cussing'. Meh.

Chris Krycho said...

Anonymous,

Thanks for joining the discussion. It’s always great to have new voices offering comments!

Here at Pillar on the Rock, we have a no anonymous comments and no pseduonyms policy. As such, when you comment in the future, please use your real name. If you’re curious about our reasoning, please stop by our Comments Policy page and take a look. If you have a particular need to use a pseudonym, we’d be happy to discuss it with you; you can drop us an email at comments@pillarontherock.com.

---

On the topic of your post: I'm using "weaker" here in the same way Paul does. He describes people whose consciences prevent them from eating meat (or drinking, interestingly) as weaker. From the context, it's clear he doesn't mean that as an insult; it's exactly as you put it: "they do not realize the full impact of their sanctified freedom." (Nice wording.) I wouldn't put it that way myself except that Paul explicitly does, and I think it is appropriate to follow him in this since my whole argument here is derived from the very passages where he does so.

One's faith is indeed more metaphysical than the mere application of theological principles in many ways. That's why Paul is so careful to spell out the fact that neither the one who eats nor the one that doesn't has any advantage (spiritually speaking) over the other. Nonetheless, the one who is weaker (in conscience) is less free than the one who is stronger (in conscience).

As for smoking and cussing, I actually apply this fairly similarly, though with a couple of caveats.

First, it is very difficult in most Christian circles to 'cuss' without offending people, and further it is very difficult to do so in a place where you won't tempt someone with a weaker conscience. That said, there may be times and places where you aren't in that situation, and I think it's relatively fine—with the further caveat that it's a matter of your heart, just as it is with alcohol. I generally don't use "profane" words because I have observed that it isn't good for my heart when I do so.

Smoking is perhaps more foolish than anything else. People may be free to do it, but unlike alcohol (where there are actual health benefits if it is consumed in moderation), it has serious long-term ill effects. That would lead me to conclude that it is unwise to do it. I would hesitate to say it is always sinful, but I would certainly be more inclined to do so with smoking than with alcohol.

Again, thanks for offering your perspective. We look forward to interacting more with you in the future!

Post a Comment

We welcome your comments—whether you agree or disagree with us—as long as they are polite, kind, and thoughtful. Please supply your name, and if you have a website, provide a link!

Personal attacks, trolling, spam and anonymous posts will be deleted. See our full comments policy for details and clarification.

If you are writing a particularly long comment, you may want to check it against the 4000-character limit.